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	<title>Comments on: News as a bludgeoning device</title>
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	<link>http://blog-o-blog.com/05/01/2009/news-as-a-bludgeoning-device/</link>
	<description>is muffin but trouble</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 14:12:42 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Swing Trading</title>
		<link>http://blog-o-blog.com/05/01/2009/news-as-a-bludgeoning-device/comment-page-1/#comment-734</link>
		<dc:creator>Swing Trading</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:04:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog-o-blog.com/?p=216#comment-734</guid>
		<description>Interesting post. I have made a twitter post about this. Others no doubt will like it like I did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post. I have made a twitter post about this. Others no doubt will like it like I did.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://blog-o-blog.com/05/01/2009/news-as-a-bludgeoning-device/comment-page-1/#comment-705</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:05:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog-o-blog.com/?p=216#comment-705</guid>
		<description>plus one&lt;br&gt;I added your blog to a bookmark!&lt;br&gt;the post  Excellent  but your design  no correctly displayed on my mozile and badly read . But I suppose that I have temporary problems with the Internet. please Write more. but I will try   to build system and i will be happy to read more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>plus one<br />I added your blog to a bookmark!<br />the post  Excellent  but your design  no correctly displayed on my mozile and badly read . But I suppose that I have temporary problems with the Internet. please Write more. but I will try   to build system and i will be happy to read more.</p>
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		<title>By: Notes from a Teacher - Tuesday squibs</title>
		<link>http://blog-o-blog.com/05/01/2009/news-as-a-bludgeoning-device/comment-page-1/#comment-610</link>
		<dc:creator>Notes from a Teacher - Tuesday squibs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 06:21:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog-o-blog.com/?p=216#comment-610</guid>
		<description>[...] News as a bludgeoning device. Zac Echola has some thoughts on the way news comes and goes and wonders if the way we do journalism is substantially wrong. Thought-provoking post. Good comments. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] News as a bludgeoning device. Zac Echola has some thoughts on the way news comes and goes and wonders if the way we do journalism is substantially wrong. Thought-provoking post. Good comments. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: mthomps00</title>
		<link>http://blog-o-blog.com/05/01/2009/news-as-a-bludgeoning-device/comment-page-1/#comment-611</link>
		<dc:creator>mthomps00</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 04:47:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog-o-blog.com/?p=216#comment-611</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I’m going to be blunt, so pardon my French (again): Yes, I’m suggesting we may be completely fucking wrong with the entire system of news. Right now, when a story breaks, it breaks like a wave. Over a period of time, it rises in interest and discussion, peaks and then drops down until the next break comes.  We do this over and over again, forcing readers to surf these waves, be they big national stories or be they hyperlocal news breaks, it doesn’t matter. The format is the same: A never ending flow of new information. Nobody questions its validity as a methodology. But it is, in fact, a staple of old media systems.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You hit on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.newsless.org/2008/09/hello-world/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the reason I called my blog &quot;Newsless.&quot;&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://cpetersia.wordpress.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Chuck&lt;/a&gt; is right. He and I and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.newsless.org/tag/consensus/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a host of others&lt;/a&gt; have been discussing a fundamental rethinking of how journalism treats context. I hope you join our evangelizing.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;By the way, the Adrian Holovaty post you were looking for is probably &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.holovaty.com/blog/archive/2006/09/06/0307/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this one&lt;/a&gt;. I&#039;m certain he&#039;d agree with you that narrative formats are irreplaceable for communicating higher-level knowledge about data. In fact, he said as much in that article:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Second, it&#039;s important to note I&#039;m not making an all-or-nothing proposition; I&#039;m not saying newspapers should turn completely to vast collections of data, completely abandoning the format of a news article. News articles are great for telling stories, analyzing complex issues and all sorts of other things. An article -- a &quot;big blob of text&quot; -- is often the best way to explain concepts. The nuances of the English language do not map neatly to machine-manipulatable data sources.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;(Digression: Earlier, Adrian mused about &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.holovaty.com/blog/archive/2005/03/18/0033&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;embedding data&lt;/a&gt; inside narrative news stories. I looked into &lt;a href=&quot;http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_Semantic_MediaWiki&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a similar idea&lt;/a&gt; while embarking on my research project, but I&#039;ve mostly decided it was beyond my scope for this year. Now I&#039;m curious to hear what Adrian thinks about the prospects for ever doing something like it. I imagine, given his current focus, he would say it&#039;s a lower-priority vision than making the many existing data sources more accessible.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I’m going to be blunt, so pardon my French (again): Yes, I’m suggesting we may be completely fucking wrong with the entire system of news. Right now, when a story breaks, it breaks like a wave. Over a period of time, it rises in interest and discussion, peaks and then drops down until the next break comes.  We do this over and over again, forcing readers to surf these waves, be they big national stories or be they hyperlocal news breaks, it doesn’t matter. The format is the same: A never ending flow of new information. Nobody questions its validity as a methodology. But it is, in fact, a staple of old media systems.</p></blockquote>
<p>You hit on <a href="http://www.newsless.org/2008/09/hello-world/" rel="nofollow">the reason I called my blog &#8220;Newsless.&#8221;</a> <a href="http://cpetersia.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">Chuck</a> is right. He and I and <a href="http://www.newsless.org/tag/consensus/" rel="nofollow">a host of others</a> have been discussing a fundamental rethinking of how journalism treats context. I hope you join our evangelizing.</p>
<p>By the way, the Adrian Holovaty post you were looking for is probably <a href="http://www.holovaty.com/blog/archive/2006/09/06/0307/" rel="nofollow">this one</a>. I&#39;m certain he&#39;d agree with you that narrative formats are irreplaceable for communicating higher-level knowledge about data. In fact, he said as much in that article:</p>
<blockquote><p>Second, it&#39;s important to note I&#39;m not making an all-or-nothing proposition; I&#39;m not saying newspapers should turn completely to vast collections of data, completely abandoning the format of a news article. News articles are great for telling stories, analyzing complex issues and all sorts of other things. An article &#8212; a &#8220;big blob of text&#8221; &#8212; is often the best way to explain concepts. The nuances of the English language do not map neatly to machine-manipulatable data sources.</p></blockquote>
<p>(Digression: Earlier, Adrian mused about <a href="http://www.holovaty.com/blog/archive/2005/03/18/0033" rel="nofollow">embedding data</a> inside narrative news stories. I looked into <a href="http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_Semantic_MediaWiki" rel="nofollow">a similar idea</a> while embarking on my research project, but I&#39;ve mostly decided it was beyond my scope for this year. Now I&#39;m curious to hear what Adrian thinks about the prospects for ever doing something like it. I imagine, given his current focus, he would say it&#39;s a lower-priority vision than making the many existing data sources more accessible.)</p>
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		<title>By: Zac Echola&#8217;s on board at Newsless.org</title>
		<link>http://blog-o-blog.com/05/01/2009/news-as-a-bludgeoning-device/comment-page-1/#comment-609</link>
		<dc:creator>Zac Echola&#8217;s on board at Newsless.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:18:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog-o-blog.com/?p=216#comment-609</guid>
		<description>[...] forgive the quiet. Meanwhile, I haven&#8217;t done a consensus post in a while. But I happened upon this post from Zac Echola in my RSS reader today: I’d like to think of news the same way I think of a Google map. Each news [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] forgive the quiet. Meanwhile, I haven&#8217;t done a consensus post in a while. But I happened upon this post from Zac Echola in my RSS reader today: I’d like to think of news the same way I think of a Google map. Each news [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Cummings</title>
		<link>http://blog-o-blog.com/05/01/2009/news-as-a-bludgeoning-device/comment-page-1/#comment-607</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Cummings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 13:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog-o-blog.com/?p=216#comment-607</guid>
		<description>Feedback loops and meme-ification of news. People indicate they love soundbites, media serves them up, and it cycles into concentric spirals. It&#039;s a problem on both sides of communication.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In short: you can&#039;t hold people&#039;s interest if they refuse to allow you to.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There&#039;s more kicking around in my brain but it&#039;s tough to organize right now without my computer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Feedback loops and meme-ification of news. People indicate they love soundbites, media serves them up, and it cycles into concentric spirals. It&#39;s a problem on both sides of communication.</p>
<p>In short: you can&#39;t hold people&#39;s interest if they refuse to allow you to.</p>
<p>There&#39;s more kicking around in my brain but it&#39;s tough to organize right now without my computer.</p>
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		<title>By: Zac Echola</title>
		<link>http://blog-o-blog.com/05/01/2009/news-as-a-bludgeoning-device/comment-page-1/#comment-606</link>
		<dc:creator>Zac Echola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 13:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog-o-blog.com/?p=216#comment-606</guid>
		<description>I should note, this isn&#039;t a completely original idea. I can&#039;t find the exact post right now, but Holovaty had a post a few years ago about building relationships between data points.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;He argued that a story about a fire has component parts (location, time, type, response time, monetary damages) that can be used as pivot points to show the relationship to other fires.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I like that idea, but in practice, something like everyblock (which is a practical application of that idea) doesn&#039;t always provide a larger context. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I don&#039;t necessarily want to know how fires relate to other fires--interesting and enlightening, for sure--but I think the idea could be expanded to how fires might relate to municipal policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should note, this isn&#39;t a completely original idea. I can&#39;t find the exact post right now, but Holovaty had a post a few years ago about building relationships between data points.</p>
<p>He argued that a story about a fire has component parts (location, time, type, response time, monetary damages) that can be used as pivot points to show the relationship to other fires.</p>
<p>I like that idea, but in practice, something like everyblock (which is a practical application of that idea) doesn&#39;t always provide a larger context. </p>
<p>I don&#39;t necessarily want to know how fires relate to other fires&#8211;interesting and enlightening, for sure&#8211;but I think the idea could be expanded to how fires might relate to municipal policy.</p>
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		<title>By: cpetersia</title>
		<link>http://blog-o-blog.com/05/01/2009/news-as-a-bludgeoning-device/comment-page-1/#comment-605</link>
		<dc:creator>cpetersia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog-o-blog.com/?p=216#comment-605</guid>
		<description>Absolutely.  Without replaying the entire conversation, context is the real issue.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As noted in my post at &lt;a href=&quot;http://cpetersia.wordpress.com/2008/12/06/information-in-the-first-instance/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://cpetersia.wordpress.com/2008/12/06/infor...&lt;/a&gt; :&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The Complete Community Connection would expand the current reliance on packaged stories in both directions - back toward the original elements, offering transparency, and forward toward a summary of local knowledge in a local wiki.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Also, see a great call to &quot;context&quot; at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.newsless.org/2008/12/ten-questions-for-journalists-in-the-era-of-overload/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.newsless.org/2008/12/ten-questions-f...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We are working on the same issues, it appears.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Chuck</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely.  Without replaying the entire conversation, context is the real issue.  </p>
<p>As noted in my post at <a href="http://cpetersia.wordpress.com/2008/12/06/information-in-the-first-instance/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://cpetersia.wordpress.com/2008/12/06/infor.." rel="nofollow">http://cpetersia.wordpress.com/2008/12/06/infor..</a>. :</p>
<p>The Complete Community Connection would expand the current reliance on packaged stories in both directions &#8211; back toward the original elements, offering transparency, and forward toward a summary of local knowledge in a local wiki.</p>
<p>Also, see a great call to &#8220;context&#8221; at <a href="http://www.newsless.org/2008/12/ten-questions-for-journalists-in-the-era-of-overload/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.newsless.org/2008/12/ten-questions-f.." rel="nofollow">http://www.newsless.org/2008/12/ten-questions-f..</a>.</p>
<p>We are working on the same issues, it appears.</p>
<p>Chuck</p>
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		<title>By: Zac Echola</title>
		<link>http://blog-o-blog.com/05/01/2009/news-as-a-bludgeoning-device/comment-page-1/#comment-602</link>
		<dc:creator>Zac Echola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:21:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog-o-blog.com/?p=216#comment-602</guid>
		<description>Right. A lot of individuals still follow news once it&#039;s deemed no longer front page worthy, but the vast majority don&#039;t. It&#039;s partly a problem with the system itself I think. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Take, for example, the pirates off the coast of Somalia. Big news this summer/fall. They&#039;re still there, on the pirated Ukrainian ship. But you wouldn&#039;t know that unless you were actively still trying to follow that news. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What was once stripped across the front pages of many major news sites, you can only find updates in random sources, most of which aren&#039;t the major news sites (if it&#039;s there, it&#039;s buried so deep, it&#039;s useless).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What has surfaced on some sites, though, is that the French this week captured 19 other pirates. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What I&#039;m suggesting brings people back into the original information. If they became disinterested for whatever reason, this gives them a link from something they&#039;re currently interested in to something they were once interested in.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It also helps solve the loss of serendipity people feel when they&#039;re looking through news sites. Tags only drill inwards, they don&#039;t drill back out. It creates a tunnel vision where people can miss other important information they might find interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right. A lot of individuals still follow news once it&#39;s deemed no longer front page worthy, but the vast majority don&#39;t. It&#39;s partly a problem with the system itself I think. </p>
<p>Take, for example, the pirates off the coast of Somalia. Big news this summer/fall. They&#39;re still there, on the pirated Ukrainian ship. But you wouldn&#39;t know that unless you were actively still trying to follow that news. </p>
<p>What was once stripped across the front pages of many major news sites, you can only find updates in random sources, most of which aren&#39;t the major news sites (if it&#39;s there, it&#39;s buried so deep, it&#39;s useless).</p>
<p>What has surfaced on some sites, though, is that the French this week captured 19 other pirates. </p>
<p>What I&#39;m suggesting brings people back into the original information. If they became disinterested for whatever reason, this gives them a link from something they&#39;re currently interested in to something they were once interested in.</p>
<p>It also helps solve the loss of serendipity people feel when they&#39;re looking through news sites. Tags only drill inwards, they don&#39;t drill back out. It creates a tunnel vision where people can miss other important information they might find interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Hamilton</title>
		<link>http://blog-o-blog.com/05/01/2009/news-as-a-bludgeoning-device/comment-page-1/#comment-601</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Hamilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 04:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog-o-blog.com/?p=216#comment-601</guid>
		<description>Individual interest survives the tsunami of the now. I still follow Burma, I still follow former Yugoslavia for that matter. I read books, blogs, discuss with people I know who are/have been affected. I&#039;m not sure the expanded &quot;world&quot; you want comes from media, so much as it comes from the individual. And I&#039;m not sure that&#039;s a bad thing.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;(Although a media that knows me and feeds my ever-expanding areas of interests.....)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Individual interest survives the tsunami of the now. I still follow Burma, I still follow former Yugoslavia for that matter. I read books, blogs, discuss with people I know who are/have been affected. I&#39;m not sure the expanded &#8220;world&#8221; you want comes from media, so much as it comes from the individual. And I&#39;m not sure that&#39;s a bad thing.</p>
<p>(Although a media that knows me and feeds my ever-expanding areas of interests&#8230;..)</p>
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